Repowering

Jack, our P-35, was changed from an A-4 to a Perkins 4-108 4cyl. diesel in 1978. The engine will bring the boat to hull speed+ very quickly and burns about 3/4 gal per hour @ 1400 rpm. It is larger than the A-4 and the folks that owned the boat were apparently smaller than I, because I couldn't get to the stuffing box. I solved the problem by removing the panel in front of the sink with the two small drawers to starboard. There is a new set of steps custom made to fit the new engine with small doors on each side - so when the steps and the panel are removed there is plenty of room to go over the top of the engine and service the stuffing box, transmission, etc. This has worked because I have a wood interior. This panel is very easy to take in and out - it is held in place with three barrel bolts. You may want to consider something along these lines before you pull the A-4. additionally rig the oil pan of the new engine with a drain hose so that all you have to do to change oil is place a pan in the bilge and open the spigot (read bolt) at the end of the hose. I can send photos if you want.

Good luck Joe Fleming

I bought my 1977 P35 two summers ago with the original A4. I am replacing it with the Beta, Kubota 28hp w/Universal block. The reason for my decision is that this is "the replacement engine for the A4"-exact same footprint. Also it runs smoother at lower rpms than the Yanmar & the oil change pump is at the front of the engine for maximum accessibility & ease of oil changes. Just about anything that has to be done to this engine is located at the front. Also, I got it at the boat show price-$6,000. Need I say more? This engine is built to the highest standards & though I am not knocking the other replacement engines out there, I believe I did my homework & hope to have many years of carefree cruising with this engine. Replacement parts can be had at NAPA rather than expensive marine parts stores. I have decided to go with a 16" 3 bladed prop for maximum thrust & some degree of reverse maneuvering-anything will be better than what I had. Please feel free to contact me for anymore info.

Jack; At some point I plan to do the same thing. I bought a used Westerbeke and cleaned it up regasketed it up. Painted it and tested it ok. I had the opportunity to see a P35 with this engine and transmission combo in it. The engine beds a very different from the atomic 4 set up. Also the access to the back of the engine including the stuffing box, starter, gearbox is impossible without pulling the engine or the fuel tank, it seems to me. This gave me pause and I've been rethinking the whole idea. I've also seen pictures of engines installations where the sole at the ladder base has been cut out to allow for the engine to sit farther forward. Counter top area over engine made to flip up also would allow semi regular maintenance on a needed bigger engine. If anybody has more specifics please let me know.

Jack, My P35 was refit with a Yanmar 3G30 diesel, 27 HP, it has proven to be highly reliable, moves the boat at hull speed and is most economical. She runs very quiet and at about 2000 rpm uses about .4 gallons per hour. Since the prior owner installed this jewel I have no idea of the cost. I do need another ignition key if someone can help with a source. I love my Yanmar!

John Osmond

Hi,
I just went through this in the spring of this year. I pulled a 6 cylinder environmental disaster out and replaced it with a brand new 4 cylinder Isuzu, a new hirth gear, new shaft, new fuel lines, wiring harnesses, prop, bearings (both cutlass and stuffing box). I have a friend that's a welder and he fabricated the new mounts right in place while I hung the engine from the boom on a come-a-long. We had the old engine out in one day. I spent a day cleaning, degreasing and painting, and the new engine dropped into the hole on her new mounts. I slotted the tabs on the engine to make the shaft alignment easy (which it was). The cost of the project doing all the work myself was 13,000 basic outlay for the engine and gear (CDN) and another 5,000 in machining, crane rentals, hoses, wiring, heavy duty alternator/regulator and the like.

I replaced the Atomic 4 in my Pearson 35 with a Yanmar 3GM30F last February. Shopping around the San Francisco Bay area, the engine alone was $5800 to $6400. That is the cheap part. At the yard I selected, the hourly rate was $72/hour. Hey - you pay to live here in the heart of the dot-com universe
where a few months ago, 36 millionaires a day were being created. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them. In addition to the engine, the following were replaced: engine bed, controls, shaft, propeller, exhaust system, water strainer, fuel filter, and battery cables. I was able to reuse the fuel tank. The Yanmar stuck a few inches into the cabin, so I modified the engine access panel. Overall, I expect that I would have saved almost one third by having the work done outside the Bay area, i.e. on the Chesapeake.

In hindsight, were I not intimidated by the engine bed/alignment, I would have done it myself. There are books available for doing it yourself.

Dennis

I re-powered my P35 about 4 years ago with a Westerbeke 30B after my A4 got tired: it wouldn't go above 2000 rpm flat out and I knew I had the right prop and pitch. I'm happy with the Westerbeke, with a few caveats. The heat exchanger, unlike the Yanmar, is not isolated from the block so you have to monitor and change zincs in the heat exchanger. On the plus side, the Westerbeke has an electronic fuel pump, so you never have to bleed the line manually after changing fuel filters. While the Westerbeke has 27 hp, it cannot drive an alternator over 70 or 75 amps without changing belts and pulleys. Also, depending on how the W 30B is installed, some parts are hard to get at to service such as the impeller, the on-engine fuel pump, the transmission fluid drain. It is, however, easy to drain the oil. That said, the biggest problem, whatever engine you choose, is getting the damn thing in the space. As you know, the engine area on a P35 is abominable. In hindsight, I would endeavor to understand/visualize how the engine will look in the space; i.e., how it will be to get to what you need to get to.

Also, two more items: I now run a 14x11 prop, instead of a 12x7, and, you may not have to change fuel tanks. My 1976 has a monel tank; that can be used for diesel as well as gasoline.

Chuck Beers

About a replacement of your A-Four. Talk to Joe Demers (1-860-666-2184 or (jedsail@mindspring.com). Joe is a sailor and a very good diesel mechanic. He helped me with several things on my P-35, which has a Perkins Four 91 diesel (aka 1978 Westerbeke 30). Joe sells Beta diesels, which would be a good replacement engine for a P-35 at a good price. Here are some thoughts:

Your A-Four's engine mounts are probably getting tired as is your cutlass bearing, prop shaft and fuel tank, not to mention your transmission. Your engine may live long but the others items will not unless they have already been attended to recently. Dealing with all the other items and not replacing the A-Four, while you are at it, seems silly to me. I do not want to re-start the A-Four vs. diesel discussion that we have every year. However, I will say that a new diesel in your P-35 will add (almost and maybe all) its entire cost to the re-sale value of the boat and it will certainly make the boat more sellable. Your running A-Four has re-sale value, however if you wait until it is cooked, then it will not be worth much. Here in the northeast, a P-35 with an A-Four sells for way less than $20,000 and a P-35 with a good diesel sells $30,000 or more. You can do the math. I hope this is of use.
Ken

This article is complements of the NPYOA. Although the focus is a 10M,
the information was derived from a P35 re-powering. Don't fall out of
your chair when you see the final price tag!

Goodbye Atomic Four, Hello Yanmar
by Don & Louise Streever

We bought our 1978 10M when she was a year old in 1979. Since then, "Halekulani" (Hawaiian idiom for "A Good Place") has been our second home. We’ve spent memorable summers cruising the Maine coast from Connecticut and from Nova Scotia to The Abacos in the Bahamas. By today’s standards, we guess "Halekulani" is primitive. She still has an icebox, an alcohol stove, and until this summer, she was powered by an Atomic 4. To be more accurate, by two Atomic 4s (sequentially, of course).

In 1991, our first Atomic 4 succumbed to hardening of its cooling arteries thanks to desalinization. That engine ran a 180 degree fever from the day we first left the dock in Mamaroneck until the day it gave up the ghost in the New Meadows River in Maine. In retrospect, we regretted replacing the original A4 with a rebuilt one. But we were on summer cruise and though Westerbekes were promoted, as "popping right into the A4’s engine bed," we were told that it wouldn’t fit in the 10M engine compartment without major modification to the galley.

Atomic 4 numero two served us well until about two years ago and from on we’ve had one dependability problem after another. Last June, thinking we had overcome most of the engine’s complaints, we set out for The Abacos. But after repair delays in Jacksonville, again in Daytona, again in Titusville and running hot to Fort Pierce, we gave up. We replaced the A4 with a diesel—not a decision arrived at casually!

Does it make economic sense, we asked ourselves, to put upwards of $12,000—half for the engine, half for installation—into a twenty-plus year-old boat that has an apparent market value in the lower half of the $30,000 range? Probably not. Salability might be enhanced, but we’re not selling.

We didn’t know anything about diesels and our intimacy with the A4 didn’t seem to apply. What size engine would give us hull speed (never achieved with the A4)? What make—Westerbeke, Volvo, Detroit Diesel? Maybe we could get another year or so out of the A4?

Are we glad we made the change? Emphatically, yes! First, we felt we didn’t have many choices. We had become so anxiety-ridden by every little sound and smell or every change in temperature and exhaust color that we weren’t enjoying our passion anymore. Second, we have an emotional attachment to "Halekulani," despite her datedness. (The co-captains are getting a bit dated, too, though one won’t admit how dated and the other’s in denial.) Third, there is no way we could replicate "Halekulani" with an equivalent boat of more recent origin without approaching six figures. "Don’t even thinkaboutit," we told each other.

Fortunately, the yard where we faced our A4’s end had recently replaced one with a Yanmar in a P35. Unfortunately, yard management would not release the owner’s name without permission. ("Policy," they said. "To protect customer privacy.") They claimed they tried to reach him on several occasions but to no avail.

They did, however, produce a line-by-line accounting of the parts and labor required to repower the P35. This was helpful, but scary—over 100 hours of labor (at the yard’s then price of $52 per hour—$55 an hour when it would be our turn) and $1,200 for parts (including $350 we added for an owner-supplied new prop). From the printout, it was evident that there had been quite a bit of difficulty aligning the engine to the P35’s redone engine bed. The mechanics finally built a wood mockup of the engine to avoid further shuttling of the 300-pound Yanmar in and out of the compartment trying to line up a fit. There were also expensive problems with the Yanmar-supplied engine mounts which had to be replaced with flexible mounts. We expected to benefit significantly from the mechanics’ learning curve.

Barry Meehan and Ron Anderson’s "Replacing an Atomic 4 with a Diesel" (TPC, Vol. 4, No. 4) was a major source of reassurance. While they went with a Westerbeke, that seemed more a function of their yard’s offering than a deliberate preference.

We checked with a nearby Florida dealer who offered both Yanmar and Westerbeke. He was strongly in favor of Yanmar. The local yard, though not a Yanmar dealer, recommended them. Finally, we consulted our friends at Old Lyme Marina in Connecticut who had provided advice and parts over the years for our A4. They were Yanmar dealers, enthusiastically recommended them, had installed a dozen or so in 10Ms, and could sell us the 3GM30F without sales tax. Even though we had to pay freight ($225), the savings over the Florida yard’s quote, given Florida’s 6.5 percent sales tax, was significant ($468). As delivered, the engine included instrument panel, 55-amp alternator (versus the A4’s 30-amp), shaft coupling, flexible engine mounts, U-type exhaust riser, Racor fuel filter, tools, an owner’s manual in more languages than we knew existed, and a five-year warranty.

Old Lyme had told us that we should figure on about $1,000 for parts (not including a new prop) and 60-70 hours for labor. That turned out to be a pretty good estimate. We pestered the Florida yard for a detailed time-and-materials budget, but the chief mechanic persisted in referring us to the P35 printout. After a week’s delay, we received a fax, (we had returned to Savannah), that asked us to approve a work order that included haul, wash, block and launch, installation parts at $650, and labor at $4,675, plus tax, which added $346. The labor seemed a bit high to us, equivalent to 82 hours. We didn’t object, because we mistakenly thought that this was an estimate, not a firm price.

The conversion, all said and done, amounted to the aforementioned "firm price" of $650 for parts, $4,675 labor, $346 tax, plus owner-supplied engine, $6,824, and new prop and Edson pedestal controls, $584.49. That’s a total of $13,079. When relaunch day arrived, we expected a detailed accounting of the parts and labor, á la the P35 printout. That’s when the misunderstanding about firm price versus time-and-materials surfaced. The chief mechanic, who we liked and trusted, dismissed our concern, saying that though parts had run over, labor had been under the fax quote so the two were a wash. In response to our concern he said the installation had taken 70 hours, but parts ran substantially over the "firm price" estimate. We requested a printout of the parts list which confirmed the $1,157.32, plus the onerous 6.5% tax. The major items on this list were things like an exhaust water hose, control cable, raw water strainer, through-hulls, and a waterlock. These accounted for half the parts bill. The other half involved 46 items averaging $11 each.

We wrote the check in October and launched. The sea trial went without incident. The Yanmar started promptly and backed straight out of the travel lift’s slip (an unheard-of-experience with the A4). We had no trouble hitting 6 knots at 2400 RPM and at 3600 the GPS read 8 knots.

Not being engineers, we don’t quite understand why a diesel rated at 27hp puts a 30hp gas engine to shame. We asked the mechanic for a non-technical explanation, since we couldn’t find one in the literature. "Because it’s a diesel," was his explanation. One big difference: we’re swinging a 15-inch, 3-bladed prop (specifically 15X13-3), instead of the former 12-inch, 2-blade. Curiously, Michigan Wheel suggested a 17-inch 2-blade prop when we responded to their web-page questionnaire. Their local dealer, our mechanic, and Old Lyme all recommended the 15-inch 3-blade.

As of this writing, we have only about twenty hours on the Yanmar, but they’ve been delightful. We’ve got power! On one six-mile stretch at 2400 RPM with an 18 knot headwind, a foul current, and towing our inflatable with its ten-horse outboard and half-full fuel tank, we pushed past other motoring sailboats. A new-found thrill!

Admittedly, we haven’t had enough experience with the new engine to provide a serious report on operating specifics or problems. So far, we seem to be using about a half gallon of fuel per hour. We’ve kept our batteries topped up at anchor with a half-hour running time every other day.

Any disappointments? Not really, though we’d prefer analog to some of the instrument panel’s idiot lights. And though the manual claims an hour meter is part of the panel, it’s not on ours. We’re using the old one with a toggle switch (which we tend to forget to turn on and off). So we will have to wire the clock into the ignition switch and we’ll install analog instruments in the future.

The manual leaves something to be desired. One big plus for the Yanmar is it’s fresh water cooling with a seawater heat exchanger for temperature control. The manual describes and recommends periodic inspection and replacement of a sacrificial zinc anode designed to avoid corrosion. We couldn’t find it. After buying a shop manual, we discovered that the fresh water-cooled engine doesn’t have one. Add $54.50 to the investment, plus, don’t forget, 6.5 percent.

Checking engine and transmission oil requires a bit of contortionism compared with the A4. We may enlarge the cabinet door to permit easier access. And we will definitely have to remove the panel next to the companionway steps to do oil changes. On the other hand, oil changes, after the first, are recommended every 100 hours compared to our 50-hour practice with the A4.

After relaunching, we spent another week in the yard with finishing work and then almost four weeks to November waiting for north winds to abate in the Gulf Stream. They didn’t and we didn’t. So having run out of time, "Halekulani" will have to wait for Spring to cross to head back to The Abacos. Stay tuned.